10:55:43 >>  :  I'm going to start recording now, so I don't forgot to start it.
10:55:44 >>:  Okay.
10:56:00 >>  :  And then I'm going to, I think it's been doing pretty well when we're been starting the Facebook.  It's not as much lag and giving it time to catch up.
10:56:16 >>  :  I know Zoom, Zoom is quite different than last week and rolled up so major updates and addressing the facts that there are so many people live streaming and using these platforms now.
10:56:31 It's getting better.  That is one good by-product of all of this.  Our distance learning and web tools.  They're improving the crap out of them.  That's for sure.
10:56:34 >>  :  Tracy, are you ready for Facebook.
10:56:36 >>  :  I'm going to let Scott in.
10:56:38 >>  :  I'm ready.
10:56:42 >>  :  Tedra, Scott is coming in right now.
10:56:43 >>:  Okay.  Great.
10:56:48 >>  :  There he is.
10:56:52 >>  :  Hi, Scott.
10:57:02 >>  :  Are you muted?  Yes.  Good morning.
10:57:03 >>  :  How are you?
10:57:05 >>  :  I'm doing well.  How are you.
10:57:06 >>:  Good.
10:57:11 >>  :  Do you want to run your slides or do you want me to do it for you.
10:57:12 >>  :  I think I can do it.
10:57:13 >>:  Okay.
10:57:16 >>  :  You know, how to do the share.
10:57:44 >>  :  Grab the screen.
10:57:47 >>  :  We are going live on Facebook.
10:57:58 >>  :  I was just telling them that camera is really pixlated today and probably won't be on.
10:58:20 >>  :  I'm just hoping that -- we never had Internet disruptions with our services.  We have Charter and last four days we've been getting these intermitting out ages.  And right in the middle of the Zoom session disconnected.
10:58:22 >>  :  We're having a thunderstorm here.
10:58:29 >>  :  So -- certainly hoping I don't get a flicker of lightening and then a black screen.
10:58:36 >>  :  It's raining here as well.
10:58:45 >>  :  Actually, makes me want to fire up the laptop, but then again, my Internet will still go off.
10:58:54 >>  :  So Scott, I received -- we're live.
10:58:55 >>  :  I forgot.
10:58:56 >>:  Okay.
10:59:09 >>  :  Tedra, you give me the cue when you want to to open the gate.  Got about a minute before 11 here.
10:59:14 >>  :  Can you guys see my screen?
10:59:15 >>:  Yes.
10:59:16 >>  :  Looks great.
10:59:16 >>:  All right.
10:59:24 >>  :
10:59:29 >>  :  You just give me the cue when you want me to open the gate.
10:59:32 >>  :  We got about a minute before 11.
10:59:34 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  Okay.  Let's open.
10:59:38 >>  :  That was an echo from my Tracy's Facebook.
10:59:41 >>  :  Are you ready to go Tedra?
10:59:41 >>:  Yes.
10:59:44 >>  :  I'm going to let everyone in now.
10:59:48 >>  :  Got about 50 people.  So good turn out already.
11:00:22 >>  :  Tedra, everybody is in.
11:00:37 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  Thank you, Mike.  Good morning.  Good morning.  And thank you for joining us and welcome to our fourth weekly webinar in the wake of the Coronavirus crisis that we're experiencing right now.
11:00:56 Today our guest speaker is Mr. Scott DeVarona.  He is the MIEBL admin traitors for Michigan and going to talk to us about the Michigan Disability Savings Program, which is titled MIEBL.
11:01:24 And one of the reasons that we asked Scott to join us today is because the MiABLE opening with the 1200 stimulus stimulus is a great way for people with disabilities to save that money either to until they need it or it's a good way for you to -- for it not to be counted against your Social Security benefits.
11:01:26 As assets.
11:01:33 So without further adieu I'm going to turn it over to Scott -- before I do that.
11:01:54 I just want to remind everyone connected by Zoom that we do have there is closed captioning available for this meeting.  If you click the up arrow that is to the right of the CC button.  You can click on enable subtitles.
11:02:02 And you will be able to have captioning for the presentation.
11:02:04 So Scott.
11:02:07 We will pass it over to you.
11:02:33 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  Good morning.  First of all I like to thank Tedra for setting this up.  I appreciate being able to get in front of the diverse group of individuals who may be able to partake in the able program.  My name is Scott DeVarona.  I'm the Michigan direct tore for the 529 program.  And I been with the program since it started.  In November of 16.
11:02:44 I worked for treasury for about 12 years and been with the State of Michigan for 21 years.  I've been around and seen a lot and done a lot.
11:02:55 Today we're going to talk about the able program and how and why it came about.  What can it do for your family and BEN fishy. S.
11:03:02 I'm going to talk about what able account features.  It's a national program like 46 different programs exist out there.
11:03:13 But I am going to spend a lot of time talking about Michigan and what Michigan has done to make the Michigan program a great feature for individuals who live within the state of Michigan.
11:03:28 It's a little bit more difficult via Zoom to talk about and do the demonstration about how one would enroll.  I will do the demonstration, it's just a lot easier to follow when you're in person.
11:03:30 So we will talk about that also.
11:03:43 I always leave time at the end for questions and answers.  So feel free if you have anything where you have a question, feel free to write it down and I will get to it when we get to that portion of the presentation.
11:04:03 So without further adieu.  I'm going to talk about to you about the ABLE.  In December 2014.  Congress PASed the ABLE.  -- -- felt that this was a great idea.
11:04:18 Because for far too long we told individuals with disabilities.  Stay broke.  Don't ever have more than two thousand dollars in asset or lose eligibility SFR Medicaid or any of the federal program.
11:04:24 30 years when the Americans with disability Act was pass.  Everyone was concerned about accessibility.
11:04:32 Making sure that individuals with disabilities could get into public places like schools and museums and hospitals and things like that.
11:04:50 The second part of ADA was not address until 2016 with the passage of the ABLE Act.also talked about allowing individuals with disabilities to become economic self-sufficient.
11:05:03 You cannot become economically self-sufficient and limited to two thousand dollars in asset and why congress created the ABLE program.
11:05:12 Created a new section 529A.  And thoraized tax advantages program.  With individuals with disability.
11:05:18 You must have a disability in order to open an ABLE account.
11:05:30 These accounts enable individuals to save for their future expenses and protecting eligibility for public benefits.  You DOEND have to worry about have too much money.
11:05:42 If you have earnings in the program they grow tax free as long as the earnings are you used for qualified disability expenses.
11:05:59 When we talk about the ABLE we talk about qualified disabilities.  Expense.  What the funds can be used for and talk a lot that coming up.  QDE.  Qualified disabilities expenses.
11:06:04 Let's talk about ABLE.  It's nothing more than a bank account.
11:06:20 A bank account you would open at Commerica or fifty-third and run by the State of Michigan.  It must be run by a state.
11:06:29 The rules are pretty simple.  You're limited to one ABLE account.  If you have one opened in another state you can't open one in Michigan.
11:06:33 Likewise if you have one open in Michigan you can't open one in another state.
11:06:49 The account owner is the designate beneficiary.  The person with the disability owns the account.  Regardless how it's funded or put the money in the account.  It's their money.
11:06:54 There are four different people open the account.  The person with the disability.
11:06:56 Their parents.
11:07:06 Somebody who is listed as power of attorney or someone has been court appointed as a guardian can open an ABLE account.
11:07:15 The rules for contributions are pretty simple.  For the year 2020 you are allowed 15 thousand dollars in contributions.
11:07:17 That is for everybody.
11:07:22 Anybody opens an ABLE can put 15 thousand dollars every year.
11:07:36 However, for individuals who are working and have an income they can contribute up to that income into the ABLE subject to the poverty limit.
11:07:50 So theoretically someone who is disable has an ABLE and working could contribute up to 27 thousand dollars annually in their account and talk about that more coming up.
11:08:11 One of the most important aspect of ABLE is that all money in ABLE is excluded for Medicaid eligibility check.  You no longer have to worry about making sure the bank account is below two thousand dollars.  You can put the money in ABLE and not count against you.
11:08:23 Medicaid is listed as the primary beneficiary when the BEN fisher that owns the account pass away.
11:08:30 Medicaid does deserve the right to claw back any proceedings that are in account.
11:08:49 What I can tell you today, as of May 14, 2020, Michigan Medicaid has never made a claim to what was left in ABLE.  It hasn't happened yet.  I can't tell you it will never happened.
11:09:00 We closed a number of accounts with the Coronavirus people have needed their money and Michigan Medicaid has not made a claim to what is left in those accounts.
11:09:28 When you reach significant assets in your ABLE in this case a hundred thousand dollars that does count as a resource for SSI calculation.  It won't change your eligibility and eligibility for SSI or SSDI, whichever program but won't write the monthly benefit check.  36 why would I want to lose that source of income?  You may not want to.
11:09:30 That maybe part of your strategy.
11:09:42 Start using that money when it gets close to hundred thousand and pay for your qualified disability and you won't have to worry about losing about that losing that income.
11:09:54 Who is eligibility to open an ABLE anyone who became disable prior to age 26.  Talk about the asterisk in a second.
11:10:02 You're limited to one ABLE.  You can't open a second account if you have one open in another state.
11:10:20 There is three ways to prove eligibility.  Eligible for SSI or S SDI.  You can have a condition listed on the Social Security administration compassionate allowance list.  And a number of conditions that the Social Security this is a disabling condition.
11:10:33 Further more the IRS does allow individuals to self-certified.  This person has a disability and this person needs an able account to save for their future expenses.
11:10:53 I talked at the beginning an asterisk next to the disability prior to age 26.  Congress has proposed to change the age of onset 26 to 46.  However, it is highly doubtful that this will pass especially in this current environment.
11:11:02 They are working diligently on the response to the Coronavirus.  So this is way back on the back burner.
11:11:09 I do believe it will happen at some point in the future.  I just don't know when.
11:11:14 There are a number of individuals who are left out of the program who I can't help right now.
11:11:19 Individuals who suffer from brain injuries after age 26.  I can't help.
11:11:31 Individuals who are diagnosed with multiple sclerosis or ALC.  After age 26 they are not eligible to participate in this program.
11:11:41 I think congress has realized they need to make adjustments to the age range and include more people in the program.
11:11:44 The limit of 26 exist now today.
11:11:56 I told you earlier that the proceedings of these accounts must be used for qualified disabilities expenses and talk about what is a qualified disability expense.
11:12:07 The IRS defines them as cost related to the beneficiary disabilities or blindness has to be related to their disability.
11:12:19 QDE must be BR if benefit of disabilities.  You can't withdraw it and give it to somebody else.  Has to be for the person's disabilities related expenses.
11:12:53 Tracking of qualified disabilities expenses is the responsibility of the beneficiary, the person who owns the account or whoever helps administer the account.  Whether that is a parent or guardian or power of attorney.  Those benefits are subject to IRS.  They may ask for evidence that the money withdraw from ABLE was used for a qualified disability expense.  You will have to have that evidence at some point.
11:13:20 It B hasn't happened yet.  I heard of no Michigan audits by the IRS.  Because the program is so new I don't expect them to be any soon.  But will be in the future.  I guarantee the IRS and Social Security are going to ask to see evidence that these accounts were used for qualified disabilities expenses.  Make sure you're tracking those.
11:13:29 You do receive a quarterly statement that have all deposit and withdraws and provide the evidence to the IRS if they ask for it.
11:13:39 So now we get into the really nitty-gritty.  What does the IRS mean?  What is a qualitied disability expense?
11:14:21 QDE is meant to be as broad as possible and include the expenses of every day living.  Which means a lot of different expenses can be used for these accounts.  Number one is education.  Just like you use 529 education to pay for books tuition, computers, the cost of higher education you can use the ABLE for that stuff and you can use it to pay for housing rent, mortgage, garbage removal.  Internet service fee.  Making modifications to allow for wheelchair accessibility.
11:14:29 Anything related to housing or putting shelter over someone is allowable.  Any form of transportation.
11:14:46 Whether that is car, a plane, a train, a boat, a bicycle, you have to pay to move someone from one place to another that is a transportation expense.
11:15:12 If you need to pay a doctor or hospital or a private duty nurse or nursing facilities, any health care or medical cost are allowable expense.  That includes pharmacy cost.  That includes things like durable medical equipment, wheelchair or any sort of mobility aids.  Those are allowable expenses.
11:15:29 Anything that is going to help a person with a disability become more employable.  A certificate class or writing resume or classes that help with socialization.
11:16:06 Those are all allowable expenses for an ABLE account.  If you need to purchase iPad or earphone, you can pay for them ABLE.  A lot of individuals with disabilities use their iPhone to their scheduling, to help with navigate.  To get from place to place and take their medicine and iPhone and cost associated would fall under the assisttive technology.  And.
11:16:35 Personal support.  Let's say an individual with a disability needs someone to come in the home to cook and clean and do any of the activities that every day living that a person needs.  Person support services are allowingable expense in ABLE.  If you have to utilize the services of attorney or CPA or any other type of professional because of the disability you can use your ABLE to pay for that.
11:16:39 A number of people ask me about special needs trust.
11:16:45 And can I use an ABLE to create a special needs trust?  Absolutely.
11:16:52 You can save the money in your ABLE to pay the attorney to establish that special needs trust.
11:16:59 The other thing that ABLE accounts are specifically to use for end of life expenses.
11:17:10 So if you need to pay for a funeral, a cremation, a casket, any of the services provided by an undertaker or anything like that.
11:17:30 Those are allowable expenses as well because I as I said earlier Medicaid does have the right to claim whatever is left in the account when the beneficiary pass away, my advise is to use the money.  That is what it's there.
11:17:41 Medicaid is going to make a claim and may, leave them as little as possible.  Pay for everything out of your ABLE.  That is why you save the money.
11:17:54 Distributions for non-qualified and might -- -- what is does that mean?  That means don't use this money for things other than what is on this list.
11:17:58 Don't use this money to withdraw from an account and give it away.
11:18:02 Don't give it away to charty.  That is not what this money is for.
11:18:12 We have a number of example that we think probably the IRS may question as to whether they are qualified disability expenses as well.
11:18:37 Things like lottery tickets.  You're going to have a hard tie justifying that buying a lottery is from disability related purchase.  Alcohol, tobacco.  I'm not saying not to buy those things.  Don't use the ABLE money to buy those thing.  Save it for things that are disabilities related.
11:18:53 The other one that I use is jewelry.  You're going to have to a hard time that a diamond tiara is a disability expense.  A medical alert bracelet is allowable expense.
11:19:22 You need to have some ability to understand if it's on this list education, housing, transportation, medical cost, assistive technology, then you will be fine.  If you have any questions whether an expense is going to be allowed and not on this list.  I will error on the the caution and don't pay for your ABLE account and use other funds and other money.  Okay.
11:19:25 Let's talk a little bit about the tax implications.
11:20:14 I know a number of people, especially in this population don't necessary file taxes, but this is a great way to solicit do donation from other people.  Anyone who contributes to a Michigan ABLE can claim up to five thousand on Michigan income tax return and joint couple, husband and wife, they can claim up to ten thousand income tax contribution made to ABLE account.  It's a great way to have mom, dad, grandma, grandma, strangers and friends contribute to your account and give themseduction.
11:20:23 A number of parents give individuals with disabilities allowance and give them some money to play with and spending money and things like that.
11:20:38 Instead of doing that and handing over the cash make a contribution to ABLE and give yourself an income deduction or first.
11:21:03 In addition to income tax deduction Michigan raised the 529 to five hundred thousand.  Which means theoretically an individual could shelter a half a million dollars in ABLE and maintain eligibility for Medicaid and SNAP and any other programs entitled to.
11:21:10 To save five hundred thousand dollars is going to take a long time if you're limited to 15 thousand dollars a year.
11:21:22 For those individuals and those family have a high network and income this is a place to shelter the asset to maintain eligibility.
11:21:38 Michigan aid does offer investment options and range in risk and cost.  All of our investment cost are under one percent.  Have a program management fee and half percent.
11:21:47 And we do have an annual fee of 45.  We do have a number of participants that are not interested in having a market risk account.
11:21:58 Which means an account subject to the things of the stock market.  And I understand that especially with the way the market has been.
11:22:20 In addition to the five investment we also have FDIC ensured money market account, which has no market risk.  You do not have to worry about the market going up and down.  If you put five thousand dollars and be there for your disabilities expenses.
11:22:46 For those families that have an advisor, financial advisor.  We also have the ability to enroll the advisor in the program and manage the investment within the 529 and you don't have to choose from our five and have your financial advisor you prefer or he or she thinks best for you.
11:22:54 An option that a lot of people are starting to investigate because of the way the market is right now.
11:22:58 I want to talk a little bit about customer service.
11:23:03 We do have a dedicate customer service line here in the United States.
11:23:14 The individuals at this phone number have been trained to help individuals with disabilities navigate the system and explain the program and help people with enrollment.
11:24:38 The one thing they cannot do at customer service is offered investment advise.  We're not going to tell you you which investment or give advise which investments you should stay away from.  We're not investment counselor.  If you have questions you need to contact a financial advisor or stockbroker for those kinds of KWECHLT they are there how do I make a contribution?  Make a withdraw?  How do I add my dad's name to the account?  Those kinds O F questions they can help you with -- -- mi men cu
11:25:06 Further more on our website we have all of the perspectives for the various different investments options that we offer and dive in and see which types of mutuals funds and stocks are within each different investment portfolio.  And you can make a determination as to where you want your money invested.  If you want your money in the FDIC insured options.
11:25:16 All of those options and choices are available on our website.  That is www.miABLE.org.
11:25:23 I talked a little bit earlier about how you can use an ABLE account to help create a special needs trust.
11:25:56 We are not or advocating for ABLE to be a replacement for special needs trust.  We understand that special needs trust have their place and important and used in conjunction with ABLE account.  I'm not an expert in special needs trust that is not my realm or understanding or where my expertise is.
11:26:14 An ABLE is another thing for tool belt and another way to plan and save for the expenses.  Expenses are going to be there and have expenses related to your disability.  You might as well create a place to have the money saved in case it's needed.
11:26:16 It's another tool in the tool belt.
11:26:23 Like I said I'm not here to say a special needs trust isn't needed.  It might be in your situation.
11:26:33 There are some advantages to ABLE.  It's cost effective.  45 dollars a year plus investment and management fee.
11:26:37 45 dollars a year is not a whole lot a lot.
11:26:50 You have broader spending money and use it to pay for a lot more things.  And it's a lot easier to gain access.  No different than using a bank account.
11:27:02 You can transfer money from a bank account and in with a few key strokes on the website.
11:27:12 Further a lot easier to handle the the account.  Can give themselves an an income taction deduction and benefit for those people.
11:27:22 You don't have to worry about filing state or income tax returns on any earnings this account is not a taxable entity.
11:27:44 The most important aspect and things we talk about our beneficiary is ABLE can be owned and had established and administer by the individual with a disability.  Can be their first chance to help establish their financial future and economic self-sufficiently and that is one thing we want to capitalize on.
11:28:00 More and more we need people, in general people to be more financially secure.  More financially educated.  To have more tools available to allow for financial literacy.
11:28:04 That is what ABLE can do for this population.
11:28:17 As I mentioned earlier far to long we told individuals with disabilities stay broke.  We don't have a place without jeopardizing your eligibility.  Now we do.
11:28:26 With ABLE we can allow individuals to save for expenses without -- -- and other programs they need.
11:28:29 This is where I'm going to talk a little bit about our website.
11:28:32 I'm going to talk a little bit how you would open an account.
11:28:37 And I'm going to go really, really, well, we will see how it works.  Okay.
11:28:38 Bear with me.
11:28:52 So across the top and once again, this is www.miABLE.org.  This is the screen you will see when you go to the page.
11:29:00 List MiABLE and list all of the different reasons why an individual might want to open an ABLE account.
11:29:13 Second tab is account holders and make contributions and withdraws and make modifications to investment.  Give a gift.  I'm going to talk about in a second.
11:29:25 Contact us.  That is how you get in touch with customer service.  Fax, e-mail, TTY and number of ways to get in touch with customer service.
11:29:34 Across the bottom you can't see it right now, but three different icons and there is eligibility quiz, which we're going to talk about in a second.
11:30:03 There are FAQ, frequently asked questions.  There are a number of questions out there that have answers posted that, you know, somebody say, who is eligible for ABLE and hear me talking about individuals who became disable before 26. .  Here are the three way WS.  It's interactive and click on the question and I will provide the answer.
11:30:24 The third thing and unfortunately haven't been able to do this recently our events.  Prior to the COVID-19, Coronavirus crisis.  I was traveling throughout the State of Michigan explaining the benefits of the ABLE program and trying to get the word out about this program.
11:30:38 So hopefully, at some point in the future I will be able to see people like you, individually, one on one, in a setting where I can actually shake hands and all looking forward to that.
11:30:41 I don't know when that will be.
11:30:45 Until then this is how we will continue to do these presentations.
11:30:50 So that's the home screen of MiABLE program.
11:30:59 If you are ready to open an account all you have to do up in the upper right hand corner there is a link that say open an account.
11:31:01 You click on that.
11:31:05 And the first thing we do is ask you some eligibility question.
11:31:14 Is this account for you?  Are you the power of attorney?  Guardian?  Parent?
11:31:43 Did you have eligibility before age 26?  You do not need to be receiving SSI or SSDI.  You only need to be eligible.  There are a number of people who decided they don't want to collect, but eligible.  That is fine.  You don't have to be collecting in order to be eligible to open an MiABLE.  I know a number of people don't have online capable or Internet or things like that.
11:31:55 If you contact us at the customer service line -- -- we can mail you a packed of information in order to enroll via paper.
11:32:06 Takes a little bit longer and do a the capability is available to individuals who do not have computer or Internet access.
11:32:39 Once you taken the eligible quiz and determine you are eligible and ask you to create a user name and password.  Just like any other financial whether it's a bank or a BROKerrage account and go through the same identity theft and checks that any other financial institution would have to go through.  We are the State of Michigan we do require you to document and to verify who we're opening an account for.
11:33:07 We also always ask for electronic delivery of do you means.  It's 2020 if we didn't have electronic delivery we wouldn't be able to have this conversation right now because we're doing everything electronically.  It makes it easier and faster and quite less expensive to send it through the Internet than it is to send it through the mail and put a stamp on it.
11:33:24 The other thing on this page ability to have authorize signer.  You have an individual with mom and dad want access.  Here is where you can add mom and dad to the MiABLE.  If you want to add a sibling or family members.
11:33:41 We have a number of individuals whose parents are elderly and they want to make sure a sibling or aunt or someone else is on the account to help administer when the parent does pass away.  This is the page where you can do that.
11:33:46 I mentioned earlier that we have five different investment options available to you.
11:34:06 This page will help you determine number one which investments you like to be in if you like to be in the investment.  And number two ratio.  You don't have to put it all one type of account you can spread it all type of accounts.
11:34:13 This is the page that allows you to make the changes if you want to make changes.
11:34:14 All right.
11:34:19 I'm going to take a drink.
11:34:34 Because this is one of the cool features that no other state has duplicated this is one of the thing that is we're proud with.  A lot of states are like that is super cool. .
11:35:02 We have created the ability to allow individuals to create a public profile.  To say HI, my name is Scott I'm saving for a wheelchair accessible van and like to know if you would like to contribute to my account.  It's a chance for individuals to crowd their account and tell their story and elicit to help pay of the expenses for this.
11:35:16 I know a number of families and talk to a number of families their aunt or uncle or grandparents want to help to pay for some of the service and can't give them cash because they are going to lose their eligibility.
11:35:35 Here is a great way for all of those people to make contribution to this person's disabilities without jeopardizing their eligibility for those benefits.  It's simple to do and these are live Michigan Medicaid.  The pictures you're about to see are real.
11:35:38 So if you click on give a gift.
11:35:42 All our donations portals or profiles open up.
11:35:50 And you can search for whomever you're looking for or scroll through and read the stories.
11:35:54 You can hear people tell about what their disability has done to them.
11:36:04 What their desires, what their dreams are.  What they want to do with this money P.
11:36:07 This is a chance for people to tell their story.
11:36:21 Once you decided and make a contribution it's super easy to do.  All you have to do is click on their names and once you do that it opens their profile and read their story and then you can make a contribution.
11:36:27 It's just like making a bank transaction.  We need your routing number and account number.
11:36:46 The other thing we need from you as the donation your demographic information, because we need to send you a 1099, because of your income -- excuse me, your contribution could be an income deduction for you and you want to have that information.
11:36:56 So I'm going to stop now and see how many questions and answers I have let's say.
11:36:59 >>  :  I have a log of those that you haven't answered yet.
11:37:00 >>:  Okay.  Great.
11:37:10 >>  :  You answered several of them as you were going along.  Let me go back here a minute.  Is food allowed as an expense?
11:37:38 >>:  Absolutely.  All of the activity of every day living is allowable expense.  There are a number of places.  I always use Meijer.  If you go to Meijer and buy shampoo and toilet paper and grocery and those are allowable expenses.  They are required to maintain your housing.  They are shelter, essentially.
11:38:04 The problem is Meijer sells Jack Daniels and ammunition and things like that and those things are not going to qualify and you may have to keep the receipt to show the IRS, I only bought.  Which is why I advise people don't use this account for the every day things.
11:38:11 Don't use the account like regular bank account.  Use this to save for long term expenses.
11:38:36 If you have to buy a wheelchair.  One of the two thousand dollars fancy or 78 if wheel share vehicle or pay ten thousand, a ramp to put into your home.  That is what you want to use it.  Don't use this to buy an Snicke or shampoo or toilet paper.
11:38:45 The answer to your question, is yes, you can use it for food.  I wouldn't recommend it.  Use it for disability expenses.
11:39:09 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  This is Tedra.  If you use it for food are you saying you need to keep all of your receipts.  If I was buying my grocery every other week at Meijer I would need to keep all of my receipts, if the IRS ask me or whatever, I can produce those receipts to show that I only purchased food.
11:39:25 >>  :  That is exactly correct.  You would want to keep the receipt, yes, in fact I paid for qualified disability the activities of every day living and not alcohol and cigarettes.  You want to keep it for seven years.
11:39:28 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  Thank you.  Mike, back to you.
11:39:35 >>  :  Next question was is there a debit card fee when making a transaction.
11:39:47 >>  :  Yes.  If you're in the FDIC.  I'm going to go back in my slide and you can see the picture.  I didn't talk about it.  I apologize and miss something and went too far.
11:40:11 There is picture of our debit card that you can use to pay for your qualified disability expenses.  Accepted anywhere that VISA is accepted.  Don't try to use it at a Casino.  And it is optional.  You do not need to get a card.
11:40:19 If you have an individual with a disability for whatever reason doesn't want a card you don't have to get the card.  It's not required.
11:40:27 >>  :  Thank you.  Why is there a monthly fee to maintain a MiABLE account?
11:40:33 >>  :  There isn't a monthly fee.  All our fees are taken quarterly.
11:40:47 The company that does all of our recordkeeping does the website, creates the cards, the State of Michigan does not pay them.  We do not have -- I don't write them a check every month.
11:40:49 They are paid through the fees.
11:40:57 So that is why we have fees.  It would be great if we didn't have fee and run our own computer system and website.  We don't.
11:41:10 That is why there is fee assess in order to pay for the services and pay for the oversite and pay for the computer program.  All those technical things.
11:41:12 So that is why.
11:41:58 Sorry, Mike, there are a number of people who look at the fees associated with a 529 MiABLE and compared them to 529 education and comparing apples to oranges.  529 education has been over for longer.  If you compare 529 MiABLE from Indiana to Michigan or Illinois to Michigan they are pretty much the same.  45 to 30 dollars.  If you're comparing an MiABLE to education account my fees are a lot higher.  Absolutely I agree with you.
11:42:02 >>  :  Next question, was clarify this one.
11:42:12 For people on SSI and SSDI and report income yearly do we include it with all of our income or report it separately?
11:42:17 >>  :  I'm not an expert how to record the income.
11:42:31 Remember this is not an income shelter.  This asset shelter.  I'm absolutely positive Social Security will want to know if you have an ABLE and what your balance is.
11:42:35 I haven't seen the form or know exactly how it's reported to them.
11:42:42 You will have to report this as an asset, but it won't affect your eligibility.
11:42:49 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  There was a couple of questions, if you like to donate, how do you go about that?
11:43:12 >>  :  Easiest thing to do is go to the web side www.miABLE.org and click on give a gift and once on give a gift and take you to the profile pages and search for a person or find whoever you want.
11:43:14 There is the donation page.
11:43:25 Give a gift on the top.  That is where you click.  Www.miABLE.org.
11:43:26 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  Thank you.
11:43:32 >>  :  Do you have to be told you are eligible or just think you are?
11:43:38 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  Eligible -- let me answer the question this way.
11:43:46 We do have an eligible quiz that will determine whether you are eligible or not after you answered the question.
11:43:57 So I'm not positive what that question means, but for instance, if SSA say no, you are not disable, which happens.
11:44:03 You can still open an ABLE account with a doctor certification.
11:44:21 If you have a doctor that signs off this person has a disable conditions and lasted more than a year and condition happened before age 26 you can open an ABLE.  You do not need to collect or receiving SSI.  That is one of the possible ways you can be eligible.
11:44:33 >>:  Great.  Next question.  Can folks open ABLE with banks in their local communities and folks like to talk to a person face to face when money is involved.
11:44:53 >>  :  You are right.  People love to talk one on one to somebody, when their talking about their money, which is why I did a lot of in person parent meeting, meeting with the ISD when the program first started.
11:45:26 However, with the state of size of Michigan and the rural, the upper peninsula, we didn't have a bank or a credit unit or anyone who we could partner with to give the State of Michigan a broad reach.  That is why we did online component.  I understand that individuals do not have web capability.  At this point, a number of banks are getting away from brick and mortar stores.  That is why we went online.
11:45:59 It's unfortunate, we understand that is at a cost.  There are some individuals who aren't able to participate until they have a computer or web access, but we had to make the decision we didn't have anyone bank that was represented of the entire state, because east side of the staid and Detroit area you see a lot of these banks.  On the west side you seed these banks and up in the upper peninsula you don't see any of those banks and went with online component.
11:46:07 >>  :  My understanding that stimulus checks would not affect benefits, is this true of all state benefits?
11:46:10 >>  :  Here is the answer that I can give you.
11:46:15 The stimulus check in and above itself will not change your benefits.
11:46:23 However, if you, let's pretend for a minute that you have a thousand dollars in your bank account.
11:46:39 And you get that stimulus check deposit, now you have 2200 in your bank account, what does that trigger?  You are above the asset limit and therefore you're subject to having your benefits reduced.
11:46:42 That is what we're talking about.
11:46:55 If you're getting close to the two thousand dollars.  Here is a place you can put the money other than the coffee can or mattress you can do something and save it for your disability expenses.
11:46:57 Yes, the question is correct.
11:47:10 The check itself is not going to change your eligibility.  Once you deposit and the amount of asset you have in your bank might affect your eligibility that is what this program can help you with.
11:47:18 >>  :  Can I use the money for going to visit family in another state or within the state to visit family.
11:47:25 >>  :  If you're paying for transportation it's allowable expense.  One hundred percent.
11:47:43 I'm going to skip ahead.  This is a question I always get.  Can I go to Disney World.  A lot of people want to do that and travel.  Getting to Disney World is transportation, whether you take a plane, boat, bus or car.  It's transportation.
11:48:05 When you're at Disney World paying for hotel is housing and shelter.  It's allowable expense.  I would not use MiABLE to pay for the ticket into the park.  That is you're going to have a hard time to justify that allowable expense.
11:48:10 Getting there and staying there are allowable expenses.
11:48:11 When it opens.
11:48:13 Soon, I hope.
11:48:14 Great.
11:48:15 >>  :  One more question.
11:48:22 Will my non-disable child benefit from MiABLE.
11:48:25 >>  :  I'm going to answer that two different way.
11:48:33 An individual who is not disable cannot have MiABLE.  You must be disable in order to have an MiABLE.
11:48:37 An individual and this is how I think this question is worded.
11:48:59 If an individual with a disability has a sibling or a close family member, and that is the IRS terminology, close family member and has a disability then upon the first individual passing they can transfer the money to a close family member who is ABLE eligible as well.
11:49:15 An individual who is not disable and no disability is not entitled to ABLE account at all.  This account is only for people with disabilities.  This is one of the first things ever that non-disable people can't have.
11:49:20 This is just for individuals with disabilities.
11:49:21 Great.
11:49:25 >>  :  There was a new one in the chat.
11:49:34 Do you know which bank ins the Grand Rapids area would allow someone to open an ABLE.
11:49:46 >>  :  I don't have any banks.  If you do to the bank they probably won't know.  And talked to my financial advisor and asked and he didn't know what they were.
11:49:55 So we are definitely lacking in our awareness throughout the state and throughout the country.
11:49:58 But there are no banks that offer this program.
11:50:06 In order to enroll in our MiABLE you have to go to our website www.miABLE.org.
11:50:18 >>  :  And I guess finally this would be for you and Tedra available after the presentation today?
11:50:32 >>  :  All of my slides on the website and I shared my slides with Tedra.  There is a hundred people on here, I don't know how they do distributions.  We've got them and get them to you.  Yes, we got them.
11:50:36 >>  :  We will add them as a resource and get everything up on the website.
11:50:38 >>:  Great.  All of the questions I have.
11:50:42 >>:  All right.
11:50:47 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  I want to check in with Tracy and see if there is any Facebook comments or questions.
11:50:51 >>  :  There -- not at this time.
11:50:56 >>  :  I must have done a really good question.
11:51:04 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  Are there any comments or questions that were not in the chat?  If you just want to ask a question of Scott, now is the time.
11:51:17 >>  :  I have a couple.  Sorry.  One from san DA.  What is the process of changing 529 to MiABLE.
11:51:35 >>  :  I have to direct you to our website.  Under our forms page there is a, I'm going to mess up the word, a roll over form, which allows individuals to roll money from 529 education program into a 529 MiABLE program.
11:51:45 You have to complete that and filled out by both the person rolling the money over and 529 planned administrator.
11:52:05 The other thing I want to mention while I'm on this screen any individuals out there and want to ask questions personally.  That is my e-mail address.  MiABLE@Michigan.gov.  That is my e-mail address.
11:52:08 Feel free to e-mail me.
11:52:31 It hasn't happened so much recently, but has happened, where an individual will be talking to DHHS caseworker and the caseworker say if you have ABLE you can't be eligible and have situations like that feel free to e-mail me or the caseworker e-mail me and set them straight.
11:52:32 >>  :  I have a question.
11:52:33 Hello.
11:52:34 >>  :  Go ahead.
11:52:35 >>:  Okay.
11:52:36 >>:  Thank you.
11:52:43 >>  :  I have a question.  I'm sorry, we weren't -- we with about 15, 20 minutes late.
11:52:56 >>  :  Is this a program in which just contributions from individuals or this is a State of Michigan puts in money, how does that work?
11:53:00 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  The contributions can come from any individual.
11:53:04 It's not, the state doesn't match anything like that.
11:53:08 It's not like a retirement account or anything that is government sponsors.
11:53:13 But anyone can contributed to anyone's ABLE account.
11:53:23 If you or your family member has an ABLE I can contribute or Mike or Tedra, anyone can contribute to it.
11:53:36 Which makes it really flexible and makes it a great way to help individuals save for future expenses.  But there is no matching component or government contribution as a part of this.
11:53:47 The other nice thing this they are -- we have a number of investment options.  If the market does well you're ABLE does well.
11:53:55 Unfortunately recently the market hasn't done so well and ABLE haven't either.  It is something.
11:53:59 >>  :  I'm an investment advisor also.
11:54:07 Can organizations 501C 3 organization also contribute to this account.
11:54:08 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  Yes.  Absolutely.
11:54:20 >>  :  And then the last question is, if a person is getting unemployment, can that go an ABLE account?
11:54:27 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  Yes, there are no limits as to what contributions can made to ABLE account.
11:54:49 I do want to mention one thing, because it reminded me of something.  A number of people asked if they can contributed Social Security checks.  Do a direct deposit from SSI to ABLE.  Has to have the bank account or credit union account, financial enSIty in the middle.
11:55:02 Social Security deposit to a bank account.  Bank account deposit to ABLE.  Can go, a hundred percent all to the ABLE account.  And.
11:55:10 >>  :  And help eliminate the ten thousand if you go straight to ABLE instead of the bank.
11:55:12 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  Exactly correct.
11:55:13 >>:  Thank you.
11:55:15 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  You're very welcome.
11:55:19 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  Mike there is a couple more questions in the chat.
11:55:22 >>:  Yup.  I'm looking through them here.
11:55:23 >>:  Okay.
11:55:26 >>  :  Back up to the most recent one.
11:55:38 >>  :  Our daughter uses her cell phones for reminders of meds and coverage done qualifying?
11:55:40 >>:  Absolutely.
11:55:41 >>: Up.
11:55:49 >>  :  Does any ABLE have partner ship any statewide organization?
11:56:03 >>  :  I don't want to say former partner ship.  We have partnered with a number of disability, autism speak.  I have a whole list.
11:56:18 Michigan Special Education.  Where we have done events.  Co-events, joint, events, but nothing formalize to where we say this is our partner or anything like that.
11:56:23 That being said we're always looking for more ways to get the word out.
11:56:26 Here is something I forgot to mention also.
11:56:43 I had to look this up first thing this morning.  In the State of Michigan we have opened over 4100 and 15.2 million dollars thus far in ABLE account.  It is working.
11:57:03 People are working it.  But we need to get the word out.  Figure three hundred thousand individuals in the State of Michigan who can avail themselves of this program and we got four thousand.  Roughly one percent.  We have to help to get the word out.  A lot more difficult when you're stuck at home.
11:57:04 There you go.
11:57:08 >>  :  What is the lowest contribution monthly or a minimum?
11:57:33 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  There is monthly minimum required.  I can tell you this I have a number of accounts people open it with $25 and haven't done anything with it.  Those kind of people that are upset with the fees.  If you only put $25 in and you're not using the account for what it's for.  Use the accounts for long term savings and getting close to the two thousand dollars.
11:57:41 If you're going to put 50 bucks in and put it in a coffee can, because you're not doing anything with it.
11:57:47 There are no -- I'm not going to come knock on your door if you haven't put 25 dollars in.
11:57:54 We have a number of accounts that don't have money.  And opened the account and haven't funded.  There is no minimum.
11:57:58 >>  :  Is there a maximum age to start an ABLE account?
11:58:01 >>:  No.  Absolutely.  Not.
11:58:09 As long as your disability happened before age 26.  I don't care if your 106 today I will open an account for you.
11:58:10 >>:  Thank you.
11:58:11 >>  :  You're welcome.
11:58:17 >>  :  I have one more last question.  This is Harritt.
11:58:41 >>  :  Have you considered instead of the stock options to have maybe a fixed account so there wouldn't be any fees?  I understand you have stocks and mutuals stocks as fee.  What if you had a fixed account and wouldn't have that type of fee?  Has that been considered?
11:58:59 >>  :  There is FDIC insured option.  Still has the program management fee associated and annual fee.  There is no market fee or investment fee with that particular choice.  We have -- -- option as well.
11:59:01 >>  :  Todd, do you have a question?
11:59:16 >>  :  I thought there was age limit in order to put money between 46 and 49 years old,.
11:59:21 >>:  There is no age limit for contributions.
11:59:25 >>  :  Jan --
11:59:39 >>  :  We were wonder several of us have asked.  Can we have folks open ABLE with their regular bank.  Sometimes people want a face to see in order to give money away.
11:59:52 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  Unfortunately, there is no partnership with a Michigan bank.  There is no, you couldn't walk in to your local credit union and say I want to open an ABLE account.
12:00:16 That is not how the IRS mandate these programs be run by the individual state.  I work for the Department of treasury.  I work for the State of Michigan.  That is the way it has to work.  And I understand a number of people, my wife's grandfather and loved going to the bank and go twice a week to say hi to the tellers.
12:00:29 He grow up during the Depression and FM felt comfortable knowing the people at the bank.
12:00:47 That is not the way this program is run.  It's administer by the treasury and have to do online component.  You may have to mail checks.  You may have to do your transactions online as opposed to going and talking to a teller.
12:00:51 >> :  Do we have time for one last question and I have one question.
12:00:53 >>  :  I might have missed it in the presentation.
12:00:59 >>  :  Can you direct deposit into your ABLE account?
12:01:29 >>:  Yes.  In fact one of the things we have done and make it easy for people to move their money within an ABLE and set up automatic withdraw and contribution from your bank account and put $50 into my ABLE and happen every month.  We do allow the ability to create recuring withdraws and deposits.
12:01:30 >> TEDRA JACKSON:  Great.  Thank you.
12:01:31 >>  :  Last question.
12:01:33 >>  :  We do have time.
12:01:34 >>:  All right.
12:01:45 >>  :  Matt, gets the last question.  He thinks he opened an account but never put money in it.  Is it still there or get deleted for being inactive?
12:01:52 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  We have not deleted any accounts.  Your information still may be out there.
12:01:55 It may be inactive state.
12:02:05 So what you will need to do is contact customer service and get a password reset and contact customer service and reset your account up.
12:02:08 >>:  All right.  Great.  That's all we have.
12:02:30 >>  :  I want to thank all of you for participating and a lot of people on there.  The one thing I want to mention.  This is the first time since March I wore a shirt with a collar.  I been in sweat and T-shirt.  Thank you for making me get dress this morning. .
12:03:01 I did receive from the Council national organization and FAQ they put together with NAST.  FAQ on the ABLE account and stimulus and want us as a state to customize it with our state specific information that has some of those questions about the checks with the checks -- what the checks can be used for and received it this morning.
12:03:11 I'm going to get it to you and put your information.  And customize it with the Council information and we will have it available as a resource when we get all of the resources up.
12:03:14 And you will be able to use it as well.
12:03:17 >>:  Absolutely.  That is wonderful.
12:03:20 I got it this morning so close to the presentation.
12:03:29 They just finished it like yesterday.  We weren't able to make it available before the presentation, but we will definitely make it available after.
12:03:54 And the other thing is that next week's topic, we will be back at 11 o'clock next Thursday and the topic is on Mental Health and Self-care and staying connected.  We do not want people to be suffering from depression and anxiety by, you know, being isolated and staying sat home.
12:04:03 So next week speakers and resources will be all about how you can take care of yourselves and stay connected during this time.
12:04:14 So we hope many of you, if not all of you will join us again next Thursday May 21, at 11 a.m.
12:04:24 >>  :  Will that Zoom ID as well as password be the same or will you send it to us?  How does that work?
12:04:29 >>  :  We will send it.  I send it out.  It's a different link every week.
12:04:36 >>  :  Did you get an e-mail directly from me?  -- --
12:04:38 >>  :  I don't know who I got it from?
12:04:45 >>  :  If you put your e-mail in the chat, I will make sure that I add you to the distribution list.
12:05:12 >>  :  And that goes for anyone else that is still on.  FF if you want to get the information directly, because maybe it wasn't forward to you.  If you put your e-mail in the chat box and add you to the distribution list and get the future announcements.
12:05:20 And that concludes.  If there are no more questions for Scott.
12:05:22 >> SCOTT DeVARONA:  Thank you, everyone.
12:05:28 >>  :  I see people have still adding their e-mails.  Scott, you are free to go.
12:05:30 >>  :  It's a nice looking shirt.
12:05:34 >>  :  We're glad we got to see it.
12:05:35 (Laughter).
12:05:36 >>:  Thank you.
12:05:50 >>  :  Thank you, everyone.  And enjoy the -- we're going to have good weather this weekend.  Even though right now it's not the best.  It's raining everywhere.
12:05:52 >>  :  Have a good week.